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  #11  
Old 06-19-2009, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Dog Fight!!!

CUT IT OUT! is my command.
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  #12  
Old 06-19-2009, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: Dog Fight!!!

ok ok...settle...or knock it off...or HEY IM WATCHING TV HERE! lol
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  #13  
Old 06-19-2009, 09:51 PM
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Default Re: Dog Fight!!!

The thing is, it doesn't matter WHAT command you use, as long as dogs listen to it. If your dogs are overthreshold in a REAL fight (and to be honest, this sounds like a scuffle- unpleasant, something to definitely avoid, but thank god, no one was out to kill each other "for reals" or you would have a dead chihuahua.

I use "Settle" to mean "Go to your bed and lie down." I would NOT use it to break up a dog fight, even though my dogs ARE trained to do it in a very high arousal situation (doorbell ringing, predictor of people coming in to VISIT THEM OMG YAY). Because frankly? If there IS afight, I'm not going to waste my time screaming. (The dogs are already going to be screaming at each other and adding more noise to the confusion isn't going to help.)

The safest way to break up a dog fight is have two people and one grab each dog by the back legs and move away from each other. With a smaller (15 pounds or less) dog, you can grab the smaller dog by the scruff of the neck IF there is enough to get a grip on (Don't grab the collar, but hair or loose skin is fair game- you don't want the dog to be able to struggle loose OR to wheel around and bite you, and in a high arousal situtaion, redirected bites happen even with the nicest of dogs- this is why pit bulls were bred for SUCH extreme low human aggression.)

With a scuffle where two dogs are just snarking and taking potshots at each other, usually with a bunch of muttering and trash talk and some snaps, a command is appropriate. (I tend to use "places!", which is actually what I use to send each of the dogs to their spot for food distribution- it gets any bystanders who are egging the participants on out of the way too, which is a bonus, and sends the dogs who are most likely to scuffle to opposite ends of the house.

All this may make it sound liek I have a really chaotic and fighty household, and I really don't- I haven't even had a snarkfest in over two years (since I quit fostering corgis ;P) but with big households, it's just something you need to be aware of and prepared for, and I have a lot of high drive dogs in and out for training, fosterage, etc.
  #14  
Old 06-19-2009, 09:58 PM
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Default Re: Dog Fight!!!

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Originally Posted by Dogstar View Post
The thing is, it doesn't matter WHAT command you use, as long as dogs listen to it. If your dogs are overthreshold in a REAL fight (and to be honest, this sounds like a scuffle- unpleasant, something to definitely avoid, but thank god, no one was out to kill each other "for reals" or you would have a dead chihuahua.

I use "Settle" to mean "Go to your bed and lie down." I would NOT use it to break up a dog fight, even though my dogs ARE trained to do it in a very high arousal situation (doorbell ringing, predictor of people coming in to VISIT THEM OMG YAY). Because frankly? If there IS afight, I'm not going to waste my time screaming. (The dogs are already going to be screaming at each other and adding more noise to the confusion isn't going to help.)

The safest way to break up a dog fight is have two people and one grab each dog by the back legs and move away from each other. With a smaller (15 pounds or less) dog, you can grab the smaller dog by the scruff of the neck IF there is enough to get a grip on (Don't grab the collar, but hair or loose skin is fair game- you don't want the dog to be able to struggle loose OR to wheel around and bite you, and in a high arousal situtaion, redirected bites happen even with the nicest of dogs- this is why pit bulls were bred for SUCH extreme low human aggression.)

With a scuffle where two dogs are just snarking and taking potshots at each other, usually with a bunch of muttering and trash talk and some snaps, a command is appropriate. (I tend to use "places!", which is actually what I use to send each of the dogs to their spot for food distribution- it gets any bystanders who are egging the participants on out of the way too, which is a bonus, and sends the dogs who are most likely to scuffle to opposite ends of the house.

All this may make it sound liek I have a really chaotic and fighty household, and I really don't- I haven't even had a snarkfest in over two years (since I quit fostering corgis ;P) but with big households, it's just something you need to be aware of and prepared for, and I have a lot of high drive dogs in and out for training, fosterage, etc.

I agree this was not an out to kill type fight but this was a 70 pound dog vs a 5 pound chihuahua and the head of the 70 pound dog is the size of the chihuahua. I think hollering something when a fight is going on is good because it can break up the fight before you can get hands on (I yelled hey and the big dog ran off), also I personally do not scruff in a fight its a way to get bit in my eyes, it has happened to me so I dont do that lol but I do grab back legs...I just simply say crate for crate breaks/feeding time.
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  #15  
Old 06-19-2009, 10:09 PM
Dogstar Dogstar is offline
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Default Re: Dog Fight!!!

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I agree this was not an out to kill type fight but this was a 70 pound dog vs a 5 pound chihuahua and the head of the 70 pound dog is the size of the chihuahua. I think hollering something when a fight is going on is good because it can break up the fight before you can get hands on (I yelled hey and the big dog ran off), also I personally do not scruff in a fight its a way to get bit in my eyes, it has happened to me so I dont do that lol but I do grab back legs...I just simply say crate for crate breaks/feeding time.

The big problem is that adding noise to the issue can add to the chaos. (It may be that your dogs are more sound sensitive than mine are. I expect my guys to be able to work around crowds, loud music, fireworks, etc, so they're introduced to lots of noise in tiny steps from a young age, and most of my training and fosters are here for being hardheaded :P).

My guys have a TON of different crap they do. :P I prefer to train things than to have to give 9 different commands to 7 different dogs. SO places means everyone goes to a specific spot (Mal to bedroom, Zoe and Mango to laundry room and into their exercise pen if it's up, although Zoe needs a boost if it is), Lizzie to her crate, Kaylee to the office, and Rittie to get away from the counter so I can start setting food down. Rittie, Mango, and Zoe get to start as soon as I put their bowls down- the other three have to hold a downstay until they are released to eat.) Kennel up means hop in your crate, and I coul duse that except that I have fewer crates in this house than dogs and I'd end up with shoving matches and all three collies cramming themselves into one size 400 crate (and then no one wanting out because obviously, whoever is IN the crate is the one who gets the reward for following the command, right? :P) Plus all three of the little girls prefer the same crate, and it encourages Lizzie to resource guard. ("ha ha, this is MY CRATE and you can't come in!"- it's her usual crate and shes so much faster than Mango and Zoe she is ALWAYS the first one in.)

Settle means find the nearest dog bed, mat, or crate and do a downstay- I don't CARE if it ends up with everyone on one bed or not or if they want to run to crates instead- it just means get the heck out of my way so I can open the door or carry something heavy through the house without 'help'.
  #16  
Old 06-21-2009, 06:41 PM
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amstaff amstaff is offline
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Default Re: Dog Fight!!!

both my pups listen well...but it's not the yelling, it's the presence...they can sense how i'm feeling and my wife can acually get them with "the look". i'm still working on that but it's funny. she barely has to make a sound and then "the look" comes and both dogs stop whatever they're doing and sit immediately. it's great!
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  #17  
Old 06-21-2009, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: Dog Fight!!!

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Originally Posted by amstaff View Post
both my pups listen well...but it's not the yelling, it's the presence...they can sense how i'm feeling and my wife can acually get them with "the look". i'm still working on that but it's funny. she barely has to make a sound and then "the look" comes and both dogs stop whatever they're doing and sit immediately. it's great!

Um I dont know if you are assuming I yell at my dogs to get them to listen...but I yelled at my dogs TO BREAK UP A FIGHT. And I dont have to fear my dogs into sitting when I look at them.... I have a deep connection with my babies and they listen to me...the yelling was due to a fight....
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  #18  
Old 06-22-2009, 08:19 AM
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Default Re: Dog Fight!!!

amstaff: that's quite a turn around for your wife! I remember the first time she had to take Anabell to the training because you had to work, hehee. WOW! Tell her I'm impressed for having figured out 'the look' !

pawz: I don't think amstaff was implying anything, he was just sharing. Correct me if I'm wrong, amstaff.

It is not fear that "the look" produces, it is respect for the packleader, submission. Look at a pack of wolves and observe the packleader, then you'll know what he means with "the look".

If my dogs pay attention and I give them the look, they respond to it, but if they are fighting, playing, or for whatever reason excited, they won't pay attention and I can look as much as I want lol. I have to get their attention vocally, but once they crossed that line, there is no way you get through with sound at all.

Reminds when Olliver and Butters got into it with a huge pit bull. It was my fault, because my dogs were off leash, the pit was on the leash. He grabbed Butters by the side and held him good, while Olliver was circling the pit, which is attack behavior too.

I was about 50 feet away still and came running, waving my hands, screaming bloody murder, scared to death for my dogs, totally hysterical. And that of course only fueled the fight.

Thankfully the pit's owner had 2 other people with him and they all kept their cool and managed to separate the dogs without much harm done.

So yes, sometimes, when the dog's mind reaches a certain level, there is no way you get through with just a look and/or yelling...you'll achieve the opposite of it.
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  #19  
Old 06-22-2009, 12:22 PM
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Default Re: Dog Fight!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissDolittle View Post
amstaff: that's quite a turn around for your wife! I remember the first time she had to take Anabell to the training because you had to work, hehee. WOW! Tell her I'm impressed for having figured out 'the look' !

pawz: I don't think amstaff was implying anything, he was just sharing. Correct me if I'm wrong, amstaff.

It is not fear that "the look" produces, it is respect for the packleader, submission. Look at a pack of wolves and observe the packleader, then you'll know what he means with "the look".

If my dogs pay attention and I give them the look, they respond to it, but if they are fighting, playing, or for whatever reason excited, they won't pay attention and I can look as much as I want lol. I have to get their attention vocally, but once they crossed that line, there is no way you get through with sound at all.

Reminds when Olliver and Butters got into it with a huge pit bull. It was my fault, because my dogs were off leash, the pit was on the leash. He grabbed Butters by the side and held him good, while Olliver was circling the pit, which is attack behavior too.

I was about 50 feet away still and came running, waving my hands, screaming bloody murder, scared to death for my dogs, totally hysterical. And that of course only fueled the fight.

Thankfully the pit's owner had 2 other people with him and they all kept their cool and managed to separate the dogs without much harm done.

So yes, sometimes, when the dog's mind reaches a certain level, there is no way you get through with just a look and/or yelling...you'll achieve the opposite of it.

Oh then I was taking it all wrong LOL my bad. I was under the impression that they give this look like almost an angry warning look. I give my dogs this subtle look and they all sit on their bums lol. That must be the look amstaff is referring to. I do agree some dogs and dog fights can only be escalated by yelling but I was screaming and yelling and continuing, I simply screamed "HEY" and that was it. Harvick went running and I picked up Tinkerbell. I dont consider my dogs jumpy at loud noises, sometimes yes they do...but Harvick and I have been through advanced training together and have worked hard on him listening to my ever demand because his threshold can get very high and extreme and I need to control it and I do. I was taking comments from others as I shouldnt have screamed (even tho this broke up the fight instantly). Sorry if I took everyones comments wrong
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  #20  
Old 06-22-2009, 12:44 PM
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Default Re: Dog Fight!!!

I think the key to every misunderstanding here is the difference between yelling to get their attention and screaming at them driven by whatever emotion.

I'm glad we could clarify it though. It's hard to do that when you just see words and not the faces, isn't it?
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